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Registered User
(2/21/02 6:23 pm)
sexual attraction
From How to Know God, The Yoga Aphorisms of Patanjali, page 137 in a discussion upon #52 When tempted by the invisible beings in high places, let the yogi feel neither allured nor flattered; for he is in danger of being caught once more by ignorance.

"Up to a certain point, temptation increases with spiritual growth. As the aspirant ceases to be a mere beginner and gains some mystical experience, his personality becomes magnetic. He finds that he can exert psychological power over others, and also sexual attraction. At the same time, his own senses grown keener and more capable of enjoyment. It is therefore easy for him to become involved in power and sex relationships which will make him forget his original purpose. The very people who are drawn to him because of godlike quality they see in his nature may be the ones who are most responsible for his gradual alienation from God. But, as Sri Krishna tells us, "no one who seeks Brahman ever comes to an evil end" And so, even when such a lapse takes place, we may believe that the spiritual aspirant will eventually find his way back to the path, and that those who tempted him from it will also, to some extent, have gained spiritual benefit from their association with him.

Sacred Lovemaker
Unregistered User
(2/23/02 2:55 am)
This is not where I intended to go with this thread
I am saddened by the lack of maturity in these responses. It seems that SRF has produced many people who associate sex with power and control over others -- hence the Patanjali quote and the previous quibble about harems on Mt. Washington. And by the way chrisparis, the issue about Master and harems is not an issue of sacred sexuality; it is an issue of integrity. Hence it rightly deserves a separate thread.

I set up this thread to test an assumption. I was curious to discover if there were, among those of you who are supposedly thinking outside "the box" of SRF dogma, individuals who had reinvisioned living the Kriya path as a human being connected to other human beings in intimate caring relationships.

I've been on this path for a very long time and. quite honestly, I am very disillusioned with the lack of empathy and human caring that goes on in this organization. In my opinion, this organization is an abysmal failure. One must evaluate any spiritual institution by its effectiveness at creating individuals who are free from narrow judgmentalism and unflexible attitudes. For ultimately there can be no understanding and expansion when one is tied to their own subjective experience.

In my dawning understanding, there is a kind of intimacy lovers can experience which is healing and very spiritual, which makes one regard others with profound respect. Research has proven that people need human touch. Babies will die if they are not held. It is a deeply sacred need for humans to connect with each other, and that includes physical intimacy.

Ask yourself how many people you know in SRF who make you feel truly warm and healed within. To me there is always a background chill. Something amiss. And that my friends is the quiet disease festering in the organs of Self Realization "Fellowship."

Been there
Unregistered User
(2/23/02 11:23 am)
No kidding! I know a non-member who refers to SRF as "Selfish Realization Fellowship."

And now that I have left it, I realize that the coldness and elitism I first encountered serving in the temples was not a fluke. It was a result of contact with the sickness at Mother Center. And the gradual closing off of the heart. So sad.

Unregistered User
(2/23/02 11:41 am)
To "Sacred Lovemaker"
Sacred Lovemaker, you are in the wrong path. SRF is not a path for glorification of lovemaking, sacred or otherwise. Nothing wrong with lovemaking, it's just not the end all and be all of this path. Yogananda and SRF make very clear what this path is about in the books and lessons. There are other paths that combine lovemaking with yoga and/or spirituality, especially many of the (western) tantric circles in the U.S. In my opinion after having researched them they are just a front for people who want to enjoy sex with another twist, but hey, there's something for everybody. They emphasize sacred lovemaking, with a lot of emphasis on the lovemaking part, so perhaps you would be more comfortable there. As for the comments on closing the heart, and the coldness in SRF and all that, that's natural. This is a path about going WITHIN, about reversing the outgoing energies and turning them INWARD. If it's not for you, you are welcome to take your devotions elsewhere. There are plenty, and I do mean PLENTY of religions in the world preaching love and the warm fuzzies. There's a place for everybody. This might not be the place for you, but it is for some.

Smoke Signals
Unregistered User
(2/23/02 11:50 am)
Patanjali Quote
Dear Username,

Thank you for that quote. It explains a lot on the spiritual path. Somewhere I read that the Vedas are full of accounts where yogis have fallen due to those facts. It doesn't get easier as you grow on the spiritual path by raising your kundalini. This explains what I feel has happened with Donald Walters and hopefully, not Yogananda. Also, when you awaken some parts of your kundalini you become charismatic, and you can abuse this if you are not careful.

Smoke Signals
Unregistered User
(2/23/02 11:54 am)
sacred lovemaker
Somewhere I read that the reason for celibacy is because you transmute those feelings into spiritual energy which helps you to obtain Self-realization. I don't know where I read it, but I will search out the books I have been reading.

Smoke Signals
Unregistered User
(2/23/02 12:15 pm)
sacred lovemaker
Dear Sacred Lovemaker, I found what I had read. It is in the book MEDITATION AND THE SPIRITUAL LIFE by Swami Yatiswarananda. I quote: "The yogis say that that part of the human energy which is expressed as sex energy, in sexual thought, when checked and controlled, easily becomes changed into ojas, and as the muladhara guides these, the yogi pays particular attention to that centre. He tries to take up all his sexual energy and convert it into ojas. It is only the chaste man or woman who canmake the ojas rise and store it in the brain; that is why chastity has always been considered the highest virtue. A man feels that if he is unchaste, spirituality goes away, he loses mental vigour and moral stamina. That is why in all the religious orders in the world which have produced spiritual giants you will always find absolute chastity insisted upon. That is why the monks came into existence, giving up marriage. There must be perfect chasity in thought, word and deed; without it the practice of Raja-yoga is dangerous, and may lead to insanity. If people practise Raja-yoga and at the same time lead an impure life, how can they expect to become yogis?"

Smoke Signals
Unregistered User
(2/23/02 12:35 pm)
sacred lovemaker
I found some more information in the same book: "Those who practise spiritual disciplines without physcial and mental purity are not only wasting their energy from the spiritual point of view, but are also running the risk of gathering too much energy, which, flowing through the worldly channels, might intensify their worldly life, including sex life, and thus harm them greatly...If the energy that is increased through concentration cannot move along the spiritual channel, it may express itself outwardly in the form of violent passions in extrovert, harming himself as well as others. In the introvert the gathered-up energy may not find an outward expression. In that case it may form an awful whirlpool in the individual, shattering his nerves and mind and making him a complete wreck...In some cases, as the mind is stirred through meditation, all the good and evil things lying hidden in it may come to the surface with tremendous force and bring aobut a phsical and mental collapse. Thosse impure souls who want to play with the 'serpent' always come to grief. In some others again, the stored-up energy may manifest itself as cheap psychic powers such as clairvoyance, thought reading, and such powers which make those persons egotistic and spiritually bankrupt. But for the sincere soul following teh moral disciplines along with the practice of prayer, japa and meditation there is absolutely nothing to be afraid of. For him the spiritual life is very safe."

Unregistered User
(2/23/02 12:52 pm)
Healing Sexuality?
I don't know about the "healing power" of sexuality. I've been married many years, and my kriya practice is lousy for some days or maybe a week or longer after sex. I'm looking forward to a celibate life and advanced kriya practice. Maybe someday I might even see light in the spiritual eye!!

What IS bad for spiritual development is the repression of sexual desire. It seems to me that monastic orders should refuse to let anyone into the order who hasn't had a healthy normal sex life up to the age when he/she can comfortably and painlessly adjust to life without sex. Amen.

Registered User
(2/23/02 1:11 pm)
To : dhyana
When you meditate and your energy rises , hopefully to the heart chakra, your chakras open. They don't close. so if you find that most of SRF members have closed heart chakras, perhaps kriya is not an effective yoga method, or perhaps since the concentration is on the third eye, rather than the heart or top of the head, you just get cold devotees.

But, is there any one on the board that thinks that SRF members know how to relate to each other?

Smoke Signals
Unregistered User
(2/23/02 2:30 pm)
heart chakra
Dear Username,

I can understand what you are saying. I have read about concentrating on the heart chakra vs the 3rd eye, and I believe you are right.

I am not so sure that SRF members are as cold as you say, but I do realize that they are somewhat distant. I found something in the same book that I have been reading, the one I mentioned above. Could this be what is happening in SRF? I am not sure. "Sometimes in the course of our spiritual progress we are likely to develop a sort of unhealthy introversion. This is to be avoided by going in for holy association...People with morbid introversion want to avoid the company of even spiritual people. People with morbid extroversion seek the company of holy men just to gossip and kill time." Not that I mean to use this book to analyse the members or even ourselves, but I wonder.


Sacred Lovemaker
Unregistered User
(2/23/02 5:12 pm)
Moving lovemaking back to the realm of the sacred
I don't know how to respond to most of these posts, but I'm not surpised in the least by the "fig leaf" consciousness going around on this thread. Some of you think that any swami title lends absolute authority to a claim. Didn't Guruji say, .....One crow is black, two crows are black -- therefore, all crows are black... but there are white crows in the southern hemisphere?

So for every sex ensnared spiritual aspirant, there is a power enslaved spiritual aspirtant. Self-Realization is chock full of the latter. Just look at the control freaks in charge at Mother Center. And aren't they managing their ojas and living very "pure" lives? In my book, neither of these models is what I am aiming for in my spiritual search. By nature, I am a romantic who needs a bit of the human touch. I am, thank God, unafraid to admit my need. I follow Sri Yukteswar's counsel to cultivate the heart's natural love. I find nothing appealing about orgiastic sexuality. That just seems to be another way to avoid true human intimacy, which has both psychological and emotional components. I'm not talking about f-cking here. I'm talking about learning how to express tenderness and presence on a physical, psychological, and emotional level.

Dhyana, I must disagree with the following statement you made....

As for the comments on closing the heart, and the coldness in SRF and all that, that's natural. This is a path about going WITHIN, about reversing the outgoing energies and turning them INWARD. If it's not for you, you are welcome to take your devotions elsewhere.

The icy tone of that response is a precise reflection of the disease that has infected Self Realization "Fellowship." First off, who are you to tell me where to take my devotions? That's an extremely arrogant stance and one you are not entitled to take on my behalf. Secondly, the coldness in SRF is not a natural outcome of the spiritual path. It may be that going WITHIN reinforces the introverted tendencies of certain individuals. But it is not de facto a natural result of spiritual effort. If anything, an advancing devotee will feel more connected to others, not less. Didn't Krishna say, "He who is the greatest of yogis feels for all -- is the friend of all"?

In a post by username, in the non-SRF teachings section, I found this quote...

There is an irrational fear of our sexual touching in society which precludes healthy intimacy for many - A fear of sexual intimacy with oneself as well as with others. Unfortunately it is the starvation for touch, not touch itself, which generates sexual dysfunction and promiscuity. Most of our cultures are so anti-touch that it is the norm for most individuals to hate their bodies and recoil from touch - the only true antidote for body hatred.

The society we live in today is extremely sexually dysfunctional. People never grew up with cuddles, affection and human tenderness, so they try to get it through sex minus the intimacy they never learned how to give or get. That's why people get sex crazed. Or, they swing to the other end of the pendulum and become ascetically brittle and callous.

Cultivating the heart's natural love does not create fallen yogis. Fallen yogis are created when the heart no longer is able to feel for others because that individual is dissociated from his own true feelings. You might think you are saved because your mind rests comfortably on the couch of an aethetically pleasing philosophical concept, but beware! If you ever become emotionally bankrupt, you may have to surrender that couch and all the rest of your comfortable furniture to the repossession agents of fate.

To Anon, all I can say is it's an individual thing whether or not your sexual relationship with your wife augments or detracts from the quality of your meditations. It may be that you haven't seen the spiritual eye because you haven't unblocked the energies in the lower centers. If so, your energy polarities are in a state of reversal. When that happens, any physical activity especially sex will tire you, not because of sex but because of the knots of emotional and pranic energy you haven't cleared up. Forgive me for advising you on your sexual life, but allow my to make a suggestion if I might. When you make love to your wife next time, try going VERY slowly. Feel yourself inside of her. Feel her breathing. Feel every touch and carress. Touch her fingertips. Feel the electricity when your lips and tounge touch. Put your foreheads together and try to feel the energy between you. Practice feeling sensations more than doing or expending. Then, you will open yourself to a finer awareness of sensations which you can then take into your kriya practice. You will naturally begin to understand that God makes love to us in the same way. Men are not taught how to express themselves this way to their wives... or to God. And, women are often frustrated that they don't get this in lovemaking.

Some of you who are macho boys may scoff at this kind of approach to lovemaking. If so, I can't imagine your meditations being all that deep or fulfilling. True lovemaking is learning how to surrender into the beloved, which is an important requisite to attaining deeper states of meditation. If you practice your meditation as if you are watching a football game, all you will be is a spectator.

Smoke Signals
Unregistered User
(2/23/02 6:16 pm)
I still have a question
Dear Chrisparis,

I say that we should string up Yogananda to the nearest tree and hang him without a trial. Isn't that what you are doing? Isn't that what many of us are doing? I can understand though, how you feel about what you have heard about Yogananda, but try to remember that nothing has been proven, and the fact that SRF has kept secrets from us doesn't mean that they have kept that as a secret too, at least let's hope not. I feel that they have left us all up in the air and will continue to do so forever in regards to this. I doubt if a DNA test will ever be done again, so somehow we all have to solve it in our hearts. That is one other reason I wrote what I did from that book in this thread. You can't become a spiritual giant if you are fooling around. It doesn't work that way, so what you need to decide in your heart is, was he really a spiritual giant? At least that is how I see it.

Smoke Signals
Unregistered User
(2/23/02 6:26 pm)
heart chakra
Dear Username, Sorry it was Been There who said that SRF members are "cold." I think my eyes are playing tricks on me--too much Walrus.

Smoke Signals
Unregistered User
(2/23/02 6:31 pm)
P.S. to Chrisparis
Dear Chrisparis, I feel that maybe I jumped on you, but when I added "isn't that what many of us are doing?" I included myself in that. I think I hung him months ago, and I keep questioning the same way you are now, but I get no where. I am asking myself often, was he a spiritual giant? Some monks and other members have actually gone up to see Ben Erksine. Like someone else said, There are no answers.

Sacred Lovemaker
Unregistered User
(2/23/02 9:38 pm)
Please People!!!
Can't you guys start a separate thread for your discussion on philandering gurus? It does not match this thread. You can easily create a new one. Come on now -- focus!!!

....apples with apples and oranges with oranges!!!

Calm Down
Unregistered User
(2/23/02 9:50 pm)
Scared Lovemaker
Uh, Lovemaker...you seem a little um...tense. Haven't been getting any lately?

Sacred Lovemaker
Unregistered User
(2/23/02 10:26 pm)
Keep it pure...right?
How true!! It has been awhile. Most likely that's why this subject is on my mind.

Since I'm surrounded by so many "purity" freaks, I will join in the madness by insisting you keep this thread pure. Why do you insist on splintering this thread anyways when all you have to do is click on the button called "New Topic" and create a thread on integrity, which is what guru philandering is really about ultimately? It's that easy.

In fact, I'm going to create the thread for you.

I know I shouldn't have to remind you that diverting a thread from its original intent is not a very cool thing to do. So learn to behave and don't crash a good party...unless you plan to be part of the scene.

This party is dead
Unregistered User
(2/23/02 10:44 pm)
What party?
I hate to break it to ya Lovekiller, but ya ain't got no party going on here....

Sacred Lovemaker
Unregistered User
(2/23/02 11:30 pm)
That's fine. One must cast their pearls and hope for the best.

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