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Unregistered User
(9/5/01 6:53 am)
There is a website critical of Ananda which lists out the warning signs of “cults”. How many of you recognize these warning signs within SRF management? It is hard for us to think of ourselves being involved in a “cult” as we think of them as BAD, and we can probably think of excuses for SRF matching these warning signs. But it is food for thought. The full text is at: www.anandainfo.com/cult_checklist.html

1) The group is focused on a living leader to whom members display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.

3) Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged.

6) The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, it's leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).

8 ) The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, military commanders and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations).

9) The group teaches or implies that its "superior" ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group

10) The group's leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control then

The Centers and Temples don’t fall into these traps and are wonderful places for the most part (considering this is Earth). But SRF-central certainly has a cult-like appearance.

Unregistered User
(9/5/01 7:24 am)
Cult like aspects of SRF
Interesting criteria for being a cult. As I read it I had a little hope for SRF and particularly the monastics: Do you think that when Ma passes people will be a little less likely to recognize Uma Ma or Mrinalini Ma as the living cult leader, to whom we offer unquestioning obedience? That would help some I think. At least gradually there might be more accoutability at MC and less control over the minds of the monastics. Or am I dreaming?

Unregistered User
(9/5/01 1:22 pm)
YOU ARE DREAMING. If you think for one moment that Uma Mata or Mrinalini Mata arent up to their necks in what is going on at Mother Center, you certainly are dreaming. The organization is set in stone.

As Vishwananda said at convocation, the younger ones (himself and others in power, i.e., the Board, etc.) are determined to carry on exactly the same. There will be no change. What you see is what you will continue to get. Isn't that heartening?

These are the ones who determine what goes on in the temples and groups, as well. If you think you are safe from Mother Center's tentacles there, you are sadly mistaken.

Unregistered User
(9/14/01 11:10 am)
DIF - cult like
KS, this is a deceptive posting. The website you suggest we check out is not critical of Ananda, it is run by them. If this board is going to be useful, then you have to tell the truth. I'm sorry to say that I had high hopes for this venue but now I believe it was started by, and is part of Ananda. What started out as people "airing" their grievances has now turned into people just attacking individuals in SRF. How is this supposed to help anything? I particularly doubt the veracity of "X-Monk". Anyone can call himself anything, and I doubt you are an X-monk. If you are so bitter that you have nothing good to say about anything, then you didn't gain much spiritually in the ashram. I am not 100% behind SRF, as I have suffered at their hands also, but this board has become as sick as the very organization it is criticizing. The tragic events in NY and Washington this week only go to show what hatred can do. Let's all rethink how we can help SRF and not how we can tear it down. Peace to you all.

Ground Zero
Unregistered User
(9/14/01 3:06 pm)
The Eagle has landed...
Eagle's quote......
If you are so bitter that you have nothing good to say about anything, then you didn't gain much spiritually in the ashram. I am not 100% behind SRF, as I have suffered at their hands also, but this board has become as sick as the very organization it is criticizing. The tragic events in NY and Washington this week only go to show what hatred can do. Let's all rethink how we can help SRF and not how we can tear it down. Peace to you all.

Dear Eagle,

Unless you are God, which I highly doubt, you just can't evaluate a fellow brother disciple's spirituality based upon his less than stellar spiritual performance during a highly exotic emotional test. If I speak false, St. Paul be redubbed Paul of Satan for his early genocidal treatment of the Christians. And what makes Valmiki, one of the 7 great sapta rishi's of India, a saint if he spent most of his life robbing and killing to survive?

Certainly, it appears that this board is as "sick as as the very organization it is criticizing." You've spoken the truth. We are one sick family. So where's the doctor? What do you suggest? And I mean concretely! Because, all I'm seeing is a lot of "shoulds" and "ought to's" but not a lot of proposed action.

You say: "Let's all rethink how we can help SRF and not how we can tear it down." Who's trying to tear it down? SRF has already been hijacked. Our hearts and souls have been hijacked. Master said we are on the airplane route to God. But where is the airplane going? Is it headed in the direction our Guru set for us? Or is it heading towards a wall? Who is at the controls? Are they qualified pilots?

The passengers of that flight that crashed in the fields of Pennsylvania augered the plane into the ground rather than have it reach its intended destination and cause more needless damage to others. I suppose, according to your advice, they should have sat down and tried to have a polite discussion with the hijackers.

Look. Very simply. Our nuns and Matas who steer our beloved Guru's work are closed and unwilling to discuss ANYTHING!!! I have heard it from monastics who work with them every day. They have told me: There is nothing to do but wait until the present generation of leaders pass away.

If this site has become a bitch and moan forum, it is no doubt due to there being precious little else for our members to do....unless you've got a practical suggestion?

Unregistered User
(9/15/01 9:59 am)
Eagle response
Dear Eagle,
Sorry if you think this board is pro-Ananda. For myself, I am greatly disturbed by the SRF leadership and see almost all the postings here related to that. I believe many organizations and individuals have been hurt by SRF leadership (not by the loyal members) and that fact does not logically mean this board is a tool of those organizations or individuals.

This board is encouraging free speech on issues that have been kept quite for years but are causing harm to sincere devotees. I for one welcome your comments. I disagree with the above note from you, but it is a free country and there are a lot of opinions our there.

I just looked at that AnandaInfo website. I think it is humorous you think it is run by Ananda. Maybe your post was just a joke or sarcasm?

Unregistered User
(9/15/01 10:05 am)
To be clear
Dear Eagle,
Just to quickly follow up on a few things, I would agree that the board is criticizing a few individuals within SRF. There are probably about a dozen, at the top, who will receive and who deserve, much much criticism. It is time to bring their actions out into the open and break them away from Master’s wonderful work. If it sounded like I said “break away” I meant it. Expel them. They need to learn life’s lessons elsewhere, not at the expense of Master’s work.

Unregistered User
(9/16/01 6:19 am)
Dear Eagle,

Your assumptions about me are incorrect. My contributions to this board are based upon first hand experience with Mother Center. I am definitely not associated with, now or ever, with Ananda. I am not carrying on a vendetta against personalities. I am sorry that you have interpreted it that way.

What is being told here, by myself and many others, is that there are terrible wrongs being perpetrated by certain ones in positions of power in SRF. These wrongs reflect directly upon you and every other member. If no one brings this to light, then everyone pays the price; unless, of course, you prefer to hide your head in the sand. If you prefer to do that, it is your decision. But when those of us who HAVE been there are screaming out, "The emporer is naked", it might be a good idea for you to question whether or not the emporer is wearing clothes.

I want to tell you of the depression and ever suicidal tendencies that have been in evidence among some of my monastic brothers and sisters. They find themselves in a position where they can't fulfill their vows of service and obedience to Master, in that monastic setting, without furthering the immense problem at SRF. Many have been there for many years and fear leaving the ashram in lieu of not being able to provide for themselves in today's job market. That is just scratching the surface of the dilemma many find themselves in. Even then, two dozen have left the ashram (and some have left SRF totally) this past year.

Now, if you don't recognize THAT as a problem which needs dealt with, you had better take some time and
re-examine your aims and goals.

As for me, I will continue to air and discuss the injustices that I know to be prevalent within the organization, so that these self-serving, power hungry "leaders" can be shown for what they are. Perhaps that will help precipitate a much needed

Unregistered User
(9/16/01 8:37 am)
Eagle unmasked
I wondered how long it would take. We now have our first underground posting from someone inside SRF, trying to discredit this board. If anyone thinks the posting from Eagle is from an actual person who feels that way, let me explain:

The post starts out claiming that an earlier post is "deceptive," because it mentions a web site critical of Ananda that is "run by them." This statement is ludicrous in the extreme. Anyone who actually looks at the mentioned web site can easily see that it is rabidly anti-Ananda. But someone just scanning this Walrus board might see Eagle's post, associate the Walrus board with Ananda, and then discount anything posted here. This is a long-time strategy of those in charge at SRF: associate anything they don't like with Ananda, thereby (they believe) destroying its credibility.

Eagle then goes on to bemoan the tone of this board, and accuse earlier posters of lying. (KS is accused of lying about the anti-Ananda board; xmonk is accused of lying about who he is.) So, Eagle starts out with a blatant and demonstrably false lie, then proceeds to accuse others of lying. This, again, is a long-time behavioral trait of those in charge of SRF: they can get away with this because their word is always taken at face value. The degree to which they have abused this trust is beyond comprehension.

Next, Eagle makes claims to try to appear as "one of the group:"

"I had high hopes for this venue"
"I am not 100% behind SRF"
"I have suffered at their hands also"

This is an attempt, again, to develop credibility for the posting, and to disguise the identity of the poster as an insider at SRF. Other than the unsupported statements, there is nothing in the post to indicate this person actually understands the situation. Once again, this is standard SRF strategy: Appear to agree on the surface, attack and demonize behind the scenes, or in the next sentence.

I could go on, but you get the point. Or, if you don't get it, nothing more I could say would help. Read this post over several times and you will see it becomes more bizarre as you study it. It is a classic example of psychological projection. (See the post on "the shadow" for more on this. I did not post that, but wish I had!)

Who are you, Eagle? Lauren Landress? Hank Shaeffer? Carmen Groff? If you are who you claim, then post again, and engage in a discussion. That is the best way to establish your credibility. To those reading this board, notice that for every post critical of this board, or of some specific message on it, the author never reappears, never replies to subsequent posts, never expands on her/his thoughts. Their only intent is to discredit what you see here, and to leave "bombs" in place that, they hope, will be seen by future people who encounter the board and lead them to ignore it.

Unregistered User
(9/16/01 11:34 am)
I a gree with Oldtimer
"I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion, and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids..."

Quoting the obsessive / compulsive SAC Commander, Jack D. Ripper, in Kubrick's brilliant cold war satire"Dr. Strangelove."

SRF......GROW UP!! PLLLeeeeease!!!! Your paranoia and underhanded tactics are embarrassing. My advice is get into therapy --- all of you -- and stop projecting. The enemy is not among you, it is within you.

You are so predict tendency to reduce every problem to the same formulaic enemy is so unsophisticated, so lacking in insight, so dimwitted and childish that you make me

Unregistered User
(9/16/01 11:36 am)
.....wonder how I ever gave my heart to this organization.

Shape up or ship out.
That's an order!

Eagle Hunter
Unregistered User
(9/16/01 2:08 pm)
Who Is Eagle?
Word is (from several reliable inside sources) that at least one member of the management committee is monitoring this board, and the person is.....Br. Terry! I'm not definitely saying that he is the Eagle, but then again I wouldn't be surprised if he or someone else in management is.

Monastics are being warned (by management) about "inappropriate usage of the Internet," such as checking out this board. They'll probably get blasted when Br. Terry reads this post. This is just one more example of infantalization and supression under the guise of "protecting" the monastics from negative and unwholesome information. Seems the monastics are being required to lay down the very discrimination that they used to decide to enter the ashram.

Unregistered User
(9/16/01 6:20 pm)
Just look around
See the post on obsessive-compulsive disorder. Whatever its merits and faults, this board is a symptom of an organization that is deathly ill. As in the case of a person whose body is filled with toxins, symptoms erupt all over the place. And like an ignorant medicine man, we try to eradicate the symptoms with incantations and dances and even by injuring ourselves, in the hopes of propitiating the angry gurus. With no understanding of the underlying conditions, and no willingness to investigate their possible existence, what else can we expect?

Unregistered User
(9/22/01 12:19 pm)
Endangered species list...
Is the eagle on the endangered species list? Or has it been removed? ;)

Unregistered User
(9/27/01 9:08 am)
The real irony with the anandainfo website is that much of what is posted, generally speaking, also applies to SRF. Would SRF consider anandainfo.com negative gossip? Much of it is true so I guess it is not gossip. But it is not exactly a positive site. So why is it there?? If a site, say srf-info.com, appeared with similar information (only stuff related to SRF and verifiably true) would SRF Legal and PR jump into action and try to bash it with, say, Mike Flynn's legal team? The anandainfo.com site seems to be closely related to Mike Flynn. Info that is released by Flynn's office appears pretty rapidly on the site. Then there is the continual war in the alt.yogananda newsgroup: SRF vs. Ananda. SRF info posted there appears posted by people who don't have much knowledge about SRF goings on on the inside. I don't doubt Master, but there is a dichotomy between what Master teaches and SRF's behavior. Maybe there is some higher reason we cannot even begin to understand which is motivating the leadership at SRF to steer the organization in such a fashion. Doesn't make sense to me.

Raja Begum
Unregistered User
(9/27/01 11:26 am)
Disclosure time
If there is a "higer reason" steering the SRF leadership, it ought to be disclosed before there's another burning of the Bastille.

rip van winkle
Unregistered User
(9/27/01 4:59 pm)
Wait a minute!

I had read your post earlier several times already and it just hit me:

Many have been there for many years and fear leaving the ashram in lieu of not being able to provide for themselves in today's job market. That is just scratching the surface of the dilemma many find themselves in.

So, if there was an exit program with temporary housing, financial support, job help, there would be an exodus of monastics from SRF? Ow. I'm feeling pain from this. This is sad. Two dozen or so leaving is, what, 12% of the monastics?

What can I do to help? What kind of message postings would be in line with helping SRF grow and/or helping people who want to leave or who are wanting to stay or whatever?

rip van winkle
Unregistered User
(9/27/01 5:03 pm)
Oh Dear Eagle.....
The website you suggest we check out is not critical of Ananda, it is run by them.

anandainfo.com is critical of Ananda and is run by SRF devotees. I think you know this, Eagle.

Unregistered User
(9/28/01 1:51 am)
Hey now Eagle and Rip
And suppose ananda.com turns out to be run by ex-Ananda members. What's the big deal? If anything, it only demonstrates that an alt site run by ex-members is possible.

For example, here's one by ex-Mormons... www.exmormon.org/

When will ex-org members of SRF make an alt site?

gray beard
Unregistered User
(12/4/01 9:35 pm)
Ananda Info an Ananda site????
I don't know how you came to that conclusion. Have you visited the home page or read any of the other links? If so you'd see that it is set up and run by individual's who detest K and Ananda and who wish to cause it's ruin. In fact it has been alleged that Flynn, SRF's hit-man lawyer was behind the site originally. He does have some influence their because when he produced the letter threatening to sue NTLA over the Eksine article it was published on that website alone, on the very same day it was dated.

Fly on the wall
Unregistered User
(12/5/01 9:48 am)
anandainfo.com site
It has been mentioned that it is possibly Mike Flynn's son, the one who flew over Ananda dropping sexually explicit flyers on school children, who runs that site. And that he, or whoever runs it, and "nojdw" the psycho who infests all the SRF and Kriya boards with his lunatic anti-Ananda rants, are one and the same.

BTW, I see nojdw has infected this board too, under the alias "Concrete". (He's known for his use of hundreds of different aliases. His deranged rantings, however, are clearly identifiable.)

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