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Unregistered User
(2/21/02 9:53 am)
Separating Monks from Nuns
From Tyagamoy in Arizona: fax #602-667-7644...In a previous response to Pig Ma I expressed my conviction that "the first solution for this mess is to get it straight about Kriyananda - J. Donald Walters." This is a matter of perspective - learning some original facts,starting with Yogananda's repeated instruction to Walters before his mahasamadhi in '52. This is discussed at the close of Kriyananda's "A Place Called Ananda." We read there: "My Guru said to me at least twice and perhaps three times:'After I am gone, the monks must live in separate colonies from the women renunciates.'"

Continuing, Kriyananda writes, "Later, I discovered he had not said this to the women, who were in fact running things...Why, I asked myself, had Master insisted to me so strongly that the monks must live altogether separate from the women, then not tell anyone else,especially the women in charge, that this was his wish?...A friend put this question to me, motivating me to put it to Master in meditation. Instantly the answer came: 'Because I wanted you to think of yourself as working separately from the women directors! You couldnever have done the work you have done, except independently of them.'"

Now, Tyagamoy urges you to read the paperback, A PLACE CALLED ANANDA, in its entirety. You will learn the true history of Kriyananda's experience with monastic women leaders, both prior to and following his expulsion from the Order. His 1962 eviction was entirely the doing of these women leaders

wishful thinking
Unregistered User
(3/14/02 2:48 am)
I wonder
And didn't Kriyananda thought that maybe the idea of the Master of separate monks from nuns could be to avoid them having sexual relationships?

Unregistered User
(3/14/02 1:19 pm)
Ananda Monks and Nuns
And what about Ananda monks and nuns? Don't they count? All the mixing of genders really bothered me during the week I spent at Ananda. The nuns and Swami K mixed very well over the years.

Of course then you run into the Gay problem if the genders are kept separate.... I guess sex is there and we just have to deal with it.

Registered User
(12/8/03 11:24 pm)
Re: Ananda Monks and Nuns
"Questioning" doesn't like to associate with the opposite sex as part of a spiritual practice. That is understandable. But we have to consider the overall purposes of an ashram, monastery, or spiritual center.

Some places, e.g., Theravada Buddhist monasteries, promote the idea that we ought all to lose interest in the opposite sex, in families, in life apart from meditation. Some of these places would like to encourage everyone to spend all day in meditation, until enlightenment, at which time they can teach others to want to spend all day in meditation, until enlightenment, etc.

Other places, e.g., Ananda, promote the idea that in order to pursue enlightenment, it isn't necessary for us to lose interest in the opposite sex, in families, in life apart from meditation. Instead, these places encourage us to develop a spiritual life while still living actively in the world and having a family life as well.

The reason why there are thousands of types of spiritual practices and religions is that there are thousands of types of people. Those who feel inclined to do nothing but meditate, and that all else gets in the way, would probably not be happy at Ananda. But I feel that the other 98% of the population of spiritual seekers need places like Ananda (although there is room for improvement there, and certainly some of its staff (with whom I have had to correspond) should be replaced).

"Questioning" is unhappy that "The nuns and Swami K mixed very well over the years." Supposing that were true, what would be wrong with that? As long as the relationships were all voluntary (and I have seen no reason to believe otherwise), it is nobody's business what those people did.

I realize that many will disagree with me. Many will assert that students and teachers should never get romantically involved with each other. But for us to impose a rule on other people's sexual conduct is fascistic -- it puts us in the position of imposing our own values on others. I am alarmed at all the fascists in America. These people, usually in the form of militant feminists, are fond of running other people's lives. Nowadays, men in the workplace often won't even look at or talk to women, because they might get fired for making a friendly smile.

As long as people aren't assaulting, raping, and murdering each other (etc.), we have no right telling them how to behave. Voluntary romantic relationships, including that which Bill Clinton had with Monica L., are nobody else's business. In fact, Clinton had a perfect right to lie about what happened, because he was put in the position of being forced to talk about something he ought never to have been forced to talk about. (Nobody accused Clinton of raping Monica or otherwise engaging in conduct that she didn't voluntarily participate in. If such accusations had been made and substantiated, it would have been a quite different matter.) I don't think Kriyananda should be forced to discuss past voluntary romantic relationships, either.

Some people will say that a swami, like a Catholic priest, should keep his celibacy vows. Once again, I think this is a personal matter. Hardly anyone is celibate by choice, including swamis and priests. The vast majority of the people who are celibate are simply people who can't get any. Nowadays it should be recognized that vows of celibacy are largely a historical relic. Swamis and priests take these vows for the same reason they dress in the manner they do -- because of tradition.

Edited by: prssmd at: 12/25/03 11:31 pm
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