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srfwalrus
ezOP
(11/2/01 9:49 pm)
 Are the teachings safe?
Are they? People wanted to discuss this.

Rigiditananda
Unregistered User
(11/3/01 12:11 am)
 Are the teachings sfe?
The root causes of SRF problems are in the Teachings -- nowhere else! It may be painful for many of us to face it, because still we want to believe in Master's infallibility, but denial is not a choice anymore. And, we need to learn to love Master with his falibility! Even avatars make mistakes, and yes, their teachings become outdated.

Were this not true, God would have sent ONLY ONE AVATAR AT THE BEGINNING OF TIME AND NEVER COME BACK AGAIN. However, He keeps coming and coming. Master left only 50 years ago, but during these "few" years, science, technology and and most especially social sciences have brought to humanity the most powerful paradigm shift in 3.000 years! It is not Master's fault, it is just the way it is.

I'm sure the SRF BOD hardly know this, because they read little of psychology, science, technology and spirituallity (Aside from the strict SRF paradigm.) They keep thinking most things are like in 1950. But the truth of the matter is that this 50 years left our techings outdated in many, many crucial subjects. Not the essence, but very important aspects like advises on nutrition, marriage, couples relationship, and most especcially the psychology embeded in the teachings which is completely outdated.

Furthermore, the advice contained in the Lessons on how to nourish the body, how to purify the mind psychologically, and how to relate to your partner are not considered safe today -- NOT TO MENTION THE HOW TO RELATE TO YOURSELF. We can see the effects as we learn of nuns with bulimia, monks with suicidal depresssion, and devotees with nutritional deficiences.

SRF still gets away giving this unsafe advice to thousands, and reklessly plan to expand it to millions! However, this is unthinkable with the present state of affairs. This cannot last. Today, any professional who gives dangerous advice to their client or patient is liable. Unless SRF becomes much more cautious and takes appropriate meassures, it is not difficult to foresee that many will soon sue for serious damages to their lives. It is very easy to prove in court, lessons in hand, that many advises given in those lessons are dangerous for the devotee.

TromboneBoy
Registered User
(11/8/01 4:24 pm)
 Re: Are the teachings sfe?
Your mother would have kicked you out of the kitchen while she was fixing dinner, if you were a nuisance. No? So why are we puzzled when SRF treats us that way? You say you are not a nuisance. Are you sure Master agrees with you? Acting out -- Passive-Aggressive, now these are popular psychological terms that really apply here. You passively associate with a Golden Age Teaching; eventually you don't get results so you get angry or aggressive. You blame SRF or the Lessons. That is what this Ezboard is about, seems to me. You have to be proactive, enthusiastic, persistent and constantly searching for how to make the teachings work for you. NOT just passively expect it to work by following some list of rules.

Tough minded, strong willed, powerful personalities run SRF. It could not survive if this were not the case. Not in today's world. Cutthroat, corporate corrupt. And getting worse. And, they demand loyalty, hard work, intelligent cooperation, being "together" mentally and spiritually (after some time in the teachings). If this does not happen, are they not right in their conviction that you only have yourself to blame? 20-30 year on-the-path devotees who are not "making it" spiritually don't need SRF teachings revised to suit them, or more gentle nurturing by SRF or a place to vent anger, like here. No. We veterans should be stronger, more independent. Or, we need to find outside help, this is OUR job and not SRF's -- do not blame SRF in the process. Or, we need a kick in the butt. SRF may provide that for you. You should thank them or that.

Outdated psychological terms in the SRF Lessons? You want pop psychology? SRF teachings are timeless. Would they still be that way if SRF made the lessons 100% culturally appropriate for this very temporary and troubled age in the history of the US? Passive awareness and acceptance of internal states -- sort of like the Buddhists practice -- you say, is missing in the SRF teachings. But is it missing? What about Introspection? SRF teaches this in many contexts, and never have I seen them fail to mention the need to accept yourself where you are, as you are, objectively.

Besides, what may be fine for Buddhists in past ages in the Far East may be poison for Americans today. What kind of stuff are we going to be accepting and passively aware of, inside us? What kind of thoughts, feelings, emotions, images? Or, haven't you noticed this culture's obsession with sex, drugs, power, corruption, addictions of all kinds, dark music, and violence? What did you fill YOUR mind with as a child? Cartoons? Conflict? Crazy games? TV, daydreaming, sarcasm? Man, I don't know about you, but I don't want to passively accept ANY of that. Introspect, be kind to yourself, objective, and systematically work to improve things, and this becomes a non-issue.


You say there are too many "shoulds" in SRF teachings. My experience is that the Presence of God, the Love of God -- which can be experienced through almost any aspect of the SRF teachings -- drives away all guilt and mental unrest, and it becomes clear just what it is you should really do. Nobody in their right mind would contend we should do everything in the lessons.

In Nature, in the business world, in education, and throughout history, from Kali Yuga to Golden Age, government is hierarchical -- vertical. You have a boss, a king, a teacher, a supervisor, a regent, a liege-lord, an employer, etc. Loyalty and intelligent cooperation is expected. You want SRF to be different? In the dark ages, if you don't go to war for your liege-lord you will lose everything, inlcuding your life.

Bheema, while dying, in the Mahabarata says the only people fit to rule are the kshatrias - warrior class. Their job is to protect virtue, the teachings of the saints and the welfare of the devotees, and strongly keep in line the viasyas, business people who otherwise get too greedy and powerful and mess everything up. It takes a powerful virtuous WARRIOR CLASS guided by saints to curb their excess or else you end up with just exactly what you see today. Corporations - the business class -- run the show. Unbelievable political corruption. Everything and everybody suffers for their excesses. Pollution. Advertising. Declining morals. Greed is the main thing. Acquisition. Consumerism. To protect the teachings of Yogananda, in today's world, STRONG WARRIOR TYPES are demanded. Nothing less will do.

The only time in the 24,000-year cycle, apparently, this hierarchical set up fails is in the transition from Kali Yuga to Dwapara. (Didn't Vivekananda say something to that effect in his RAJA YOGA?) I say apparently, because what we think of as democracy is hardly that. Such a thing as true democracy in my opinion can't happen unless we all become saints. Rather, we in America are given the delusion of freedom and rights, while being brazenly manipulated and controlled and brainwashed. One European recently told me this -- that we Americans are all heavily brainwashed, by TV, newspapers, censored media, and actually we in American have LESS true freedom than any other country on earth today. But we Americans can't see it because we are all in the same box. I don't quite agree, but can you see the truth here? Anyhow, this thing we call democracy produces strange ideas in people. We can get infantalizing and warped ideas like opportunity is or should be equal for all, that rights are more important than duty or dharma. That there should be no division between people, no social classes, that hard work and true merit don't really count for much, etc. And the truth that God and Karma totally protect the rights of the soul is obscured.

SRF will not be overly friendly to you if you think that way. But neither will Life. Do you want SRF to just be your nice security blanket? If you are paying attention today, you may notice we are fast sliding into a police state/martial law/warrior-military ruling class.

Ravi Batra (a rare breed, an historical economist, not a Keyenisan mathematical modeler) in his book THE GREAT DEPRESSION OF 1990 predicted exactly this. He said the only way to prevent a depression in 1990 would be to have a war. We did -- with Iraq. He made some predictions, based on analysis of who was the ruling class inside of nations, throughout history. He found there were three types of ruling classes -- the "intellectual elite" or Brahmins, the "warriors" or kshatrias, the "business class" or viashas --- the sudras never rule, they are not fit to rule. He makes a strong point that America, from the beginning, has been a VAISYA or BUSINESSMAN ruled country. Likewise our constitution. And that Vaisya rule in American MUST end by about the year 2000.

Batra makes the point there is one statistic that you never hear about today. It's politically incorrect. It is called CONCENTRATION OF WEALTH. The more generations you have a Vaisya ruling class, the greater the concentration of wealth. Until finally, very few people have most of the wealth. This scenario set off the French Revolution. This statistic can be used historically to predict revolutions, war, invasions, and more. Guess what-- we in American have "hit the wall". If history is a guide, according to Batra, one of several things HAS to happen in America VERY SOON. War. Invasion. Constitutional convention to remake government. Martial law. Looks like he was right, huh?

All this actually is very germaine to the issues with SRF. Hold on.

After generations of businessman rule, martial law, police state, is the ONLY kind of government that can then survive, because the people and morals and institutions are all so corrupted. This pattern is replayed throughout history. Never has there been an exception, never will there be, according to Batra. I think this information is key to understanding SRF in today's world. Remember, the ideal ruler is an enlightened WARRIOR type person, guided by saints. NOT A SAINT. Many here on EZboard have made this point, that the power structure in SRF in not filled with saintly persons necessarily. That is as it should be.
Maybe Master knew what he was doing after all in the way he organized SRF? You think?

Some say the police state in America has already arrived. . And, a depression may be right around the corner. We need to band together, be tough, independent, and help SRF while standing on our own two feet. Show our loyalty and support. Not turn to SRF for help, or whine and moan about mistreatment or outmoded lessons. Do you think Master would have placed you here at this time, as a pioneer in the early days of SRF, if you were not tough enough to make it? I have worked for SRF many years and have seen and experienced much, but I am not whining or complaining.

This culture spoils people, from birth. We learn to depend on comforts. We spend 10 minutes waiting in a parking lot, for Pete's sake, to avoid walking 50 yards. We become tunnel-visioned and tunnel-brained. We don't learn anything useful about how to learn, to concentrate, to suceed, or about functional movement or posture. Those things you must pick up on your own, somehow. And we expect SRF to fill in all these gaps?? Come on!! Be real.

Our education is designed to make automatons out of us suited only for routine work. We get loaded with pollution, junk food, 100 times more salt and sugar than the body needs, and incredible stress, with addictions like TV, junk food, toxic relationships, sugar, media brainwashing-advertising, junk novels, junk tabloids, junk radio, junk cassettes, junk CD's, consumerism and more. Our medical system enables people to continue their bad habits by quick fix solutions -- drugs, surgery, radiation, etc. Ghandi once said "Western medicine is satanic, because it allows people to continue in their bad habits." He was not wrong. Why did Turiyanada warn some young people (who later told me) "be very careful choosing your profession. If you go into law, medicine or law enforcement you can get lots of bad karma." Yet everybody here blandly accepts MD's as God incarnate, taking no responsibility for their own health.

SRF is attempting to function and grow in this environment! And succeeding 100 times better than what you could realistically expect. What? You really want SRF to be a Golden Age institution here in the tumultous aftermath of the Kali Yuga? NO, any institution in a Dark Age -- as we are in -- must function in that context and that means LOTS of rough edges. It is a miracle that SRF even EXISTS!! I think they are doing and have done a heroic job of it. That now and again they put on their marching boots, hey, it may even be ME or YOU who gets trampled, I have no issue with.

Sure, it is easy to say that you have been in SRF and came out damaged. Trust me, you were damaged to begin with. Unless you came here from a higher age planet fully grown.

Surprise, surprise. Inside of SRF you find conflict, power politics, personalities, egos, abuse, waste, stupidity, mistakes. People, including renunciants, are HUMAN. Well, under the belly of a swimming swan you find turbulent swirling water, hard working web feet, inelegant, perhaps clumsy. But the swan gracefully glides along. Is the swan a hypocrite? You want it to swim belly up, wagging its feet in the air going nowhere and drowning? That is just as ridiculous as saying SRF should be more open about the inner workings. Granted, they need to come up to modern business standards, but aren't they working hard to do that?

Why don't I see more here on EZboard about blaming the culture, the pollution that deadens the brain and degrades the nervous system? The over consumption of salt and sugar that stimulates carnal cravings? (As Shakespeare said, "a salt imagination"). Or blaming Agra-business that has so severely degraded the food supply -- most commercial foods have MUCH less good oils, protein, fiber, vitamins, enzymes, and minerals as compared to before 1950 . And pesticides and herbicides are in all food now, even organics. These substances degrade the nervous system. So, OF COURSE the SRF instructions on diet, on fasting etc that were appropriate to 1950 are not going to work today. But are you going to blame SRF for not telling you things like this? Where have you been, living in a box? Everybody today knows you need to supplement to be healthy, especially if you are vegetarian. And about the need to find ways to de-tox periodically. And that fasting even a few days on water may be hard on the kidneys or liver, because of all the toxins. Why not blame the educational system? Why not -- best of all -- even blame our own stupidity and lack of application?

Some here say the SRF techniques have never worked for them. So they blame the teachings, the organization. That is not productive or responsible.

For pete's sake, the SRF Lessons DO HAVE all we need to find God and live a harmonious happy life. I don't doubt it. If you disagree, you have not made the proper effort. PERIOD.

Today, our culture brings VERY damaged goods to the SRF teachings. People with horrible posture. With computer staring eyes. Out of shape. Sedentary. Junk food bodies. Addicts to TV, movies, sugar and worse. Is there any teaching on earth that could salvage such human wastage? Yet Master, and SRF are doing it. It is a miracle. Many of us are hanging on to certain bad habits that block our progress. You can't blame SRF for that. For instance, do you watch TV? You can't say SRF has not warned you about that one. TV will deaden the will, produce staring eyes, dampen the ability to creativly visualize in 3 dimensions, and produces the need to be entertained cleverly every three minutes. Joseph Chilton Pierce (associated with Radio Free Maine) contends ANY TV for a child under age 12 will produce MEASUREABLE BRAIN DAMAGE. This was in an SRM. Same with computers and internet. You try sending energy to a body part with a TV brain and you see the body part in two dimensions, like a TV picture, and try to send energy there. It won't work, folks. The brain is made to work in 3D. TV will sabatoge your spiritual life. But, have you given it up? How many times do the monks need to suggest this, to minimize it at least, before you actually DO it? And this is only one example of a bad habit we may hang onto.

One example from my personal experience. Exhale, tense the whole body at once. Repeat and notice how the hands and eyes feel doing that. Then relax. Now repeat, but this time begin the tensing with the powerful muscles in the center of the body…..called the buttocks. It may take you awhile to feel that you can tense them hard, harder than the fists. Let the tension there radiate out to the rest of the body. Tense the hands and eyes only very gently -- the major effort is in the buttocks. Now, THIS is the proper way to tense the whole body at once, from the center outward. But because we all overwork our eye/hand activities (computers, driving, desk work, doing dishes, etc) we naturally tend to tense eyes and hands FIRST and HARDEST when told to tense the entire body at once.

Is there anyplace in the SRF teachings where you are asked to tense and relax the entire body at once? I think there is. How do you do it? Most totally ignore the buttocks and abuse the hands and eyes by tensing them first and with far too much energy/tension. You can sense this in yourself if you listen for it. A feeling of strain. Why do we ignore the buttocks? Because we sit on chairs here in the west too much. They become a cushion. Unused, disconnected from the brain in movement.

Now, this is an example of a problem we brought into the teachings. Not knowing that tensing the buttocks strongly and first is something you could or should actually do. Whimpy flabby, weak buttocks are not the fault of SRF, for heaven's sake. Take away the quality of active searching discrimination from the devotee, and the SRF Lessons truly are outmoded, unworkable, overwhelming, loaded with "shoulds" and more. BUT THAT IS TRUE OF ANY SCRIPTURE. But come on, you would not even BE in SRF if you did not have discrimination.

So, some years ago I felt that tensing the body was a strain. I knew from Master there should be no feeling of strain, so I began to search for why tensing the body was a strain. Now, what I described above may be totally wrong, but it works for me. I no longer feel the strain in eyes and hands while doing that. I searched for an answer and found it.

Nor, can you expect the monks and nuns to learn about all the little problems or bad habits like this unique to you and I or our age or our culture and devise solutions. That is OUR job. The SRF Lessons are the best possible guide, assistance, and inspiration. Granted that, no doubt, in today's world we have to work harder at that than any other time.

KS
Unregistered User
(11/8/01 5:24 pm)
 To TromboneBoy
I love these thoughtful posts. These are just the things we like. I don’t agree with it all but thanks for the thoughts! They are good for generating more healthy discussion. I sincerely appreciate the addition (as if this is MY board!!!). By the length I can see you put a lot of thought into it. By the way, we refer to this board as “the Walrus”, not the EZboard.

There are so many thoughts in your post it will take some time to respond to all of them (and I have to eat dinner now). I might start a separate thread. But for now I want to respond to one item.

Tough minded, strong willed, powerful personalities run SRF. It could not survive if this were not the case. Not in today's world.

I have personal experience with these ladies. They are not tough, not strong willed, and not powerful. They are weak, insecure, and lack courage. They fear everything, even the members they have made out to be problems. I have seen one of them break down in tears with a little criticism. Criticism that would roll off most of us. They hide from us members our of fear, no other reason. They are very easily manipulated as has been shown by countless projects where outside consultants come in and run things. There are plenty of examples with the Lake Shrine project, the Master Plan at mother center, and the accounting project.

These bad ladies are hardly powerful beings.

oldtimer
Unregistered User
(11/8/01 7:31 pm)
 Re: TromboneBoy
You posted:

Granted, they need to come up to modern business standards, but aren't they working hard to do that?

The answer is No. Their fear and weakness and meanness of heart prevents them even considering rational action.

I acknowledge your sincerity but you seem lost in the external world. Though your post tries to make the point that the "complainers" have lost sight of the spiritual, you base most of your comments on political, economic, social, cultural, and biological issues.

XInsider
Unregistered User
(11/8/01 8:02 pm)
 Toots from the Trombone
Gosh almighty. Reading that post made me feel like I went to college or something. All that info in one place! From politics to buttocks to precious bodily fluids being defiled by salt and sugar! It must be really great to know so much about so many things. And to be so right!

But seriously folks, I think that the philosphies of Trombone boy are perfect for SRF and vice versa. It's a marriage made in heaven ...or somewhere.

KS
Unregistered User
(11/8/01 9:05 pm)
 one minute manager?
To TromboneBoy: I happen to agree that the Lessons are not causing problems. Many on the board feel they are, and they are free to discuss it. Most of the Lessons are pretty harmless. Very watered down advice for diet and things and always suggestions to seek professional advice. I was never really drawn to the Lessons myself. The new Gita is another matter. That is a rocket ship.

My complaint is that the bad ladies don’t follow Master’s basic advice. LEARN TO BEHAVE! They are poor examples.
Quote:
TromboneBoy: Sure, it is easy to say that you have been in SRF and came out damaged. Trust me, you were damaged to begin with.

I disagree. While everyone on earth is here for a reason, I see people going in closer to SRF and getting mistreated and abused and losing their way. They are certainly being driven from Guru. They trust SRF, trust that it is acting in their best interests, trusting that it really is the spiritual successor to Master. When they find out the truth it is devastating. I can’t name a single person who is doing better spiritually for their association with the bad ladies. Not a single person. I am serious. Many have completely left Master.

Think about it. People are getting closer to the core of SRF and leaving Master as a result. Think about it.
Quote:
TromboneBoy: Granted, they need to come up to modern business standards, but aren't they working hard to do that?

I guess you are not too involved. No, they are not working hard to come up to modern business standards. They will make a change if it gives them more control, but that is hardly a step toward modern standards.

They try to run everything by committee. This is partly because they don’t actually trust anyone to actually DO anything and partly because it relieves any one individual from having to take responsibility. Modern management ideas? They have layers of committees, but all they can do is say no. To approve something is not in their scope.

How about “management by walking around?” The monastics and employees hardly see the bad ladies. Some don’t even see their immediate supervisor (who model their management style after the bad ladies). They hide away. At Christmas each employee receives a box of chocolates and an unsigned card left on a back table. Such personal caring!

How about the “one minute manager?” Ha! They provide NO feedback as to how you are doing in your job. None. They hardly even give direction. There are no goals for the organization, no priorities internally (except protection and fear), and they fear and abuse people who come up with ideas. “All ideas are to come from the top” but none ever do. Look at the fiasco with the Youth Program. All ideas squashed for years. How about the two computer guys fired without warning and with no explanation? Such caring and loving management!

Should free
Unregistered User
(11/9/01 12:32 am)
 My therapist interpretation
My most dear friend T I R A N O - Boy:

First let me ask you to PLEASE brake down your torrent of ideas into different postings. I got ADD as a consequence of so many "shoulds" in the Lessons, so today I can't read for so long! But, perhaps you also have ADD since you jump between so many subjects like a butterfly swiftly flying from one flower to the next -- have the teachings made you sick too? Also, I can't denied that your ideas are a bit strange...a bit polarized you know, which is another quite interesting disease of the teachings, and comes from monasticism -- things are either black or white, white or black, no grays in between. Nature, and reality are all grays and rarely black or white. Have you been a monk? for how many incarnations T-BOY?

Jokes aside...

You say:

<<<<< Nobody in their right mind would contend we should do everything in the lessons.>>>>>

This point is not true and is deceiving the way you say it -- you know it, because you were there. When a new comer receives the lessons he/she believes that Master, an avatar, wrote them, and he or she should follow all the directions -- all of them! It is true that soon they realize it is impossible, however, that doesn't take away the feeling of NEVER BEEN GOOD ENOUGH. On the contrary, as the "shooting" continues lesson after lesson, and year after year, the feelings of inadequacy tend to increase. They are quite subconscious, of course, but they are there. Then some people are puzzled; Oh, why SRF devotees have low self- esteem?!

But the damage does not stop there. The "shoulds" continue to mount and to repeat, again and again. The devotee soon begins to bring them inside, and eventually they are with him or her all day long , and all night. My therapist called this a super ego structure dominating the mind -- the superego becomes SUPER SUPER.

Then the SUPER SUPER ego is beating you all the time, every moment of the day. To silence this inner destructive voice that was creating havoc in my mind, especially anxiety, I needed years of psychotherapy. What a paradox, trying to dissolve the ego and ending up with a SUPER SUPER ego. MASTER WAS RIGHT -- THIS UNIVERSE IS A PARADOX.

We need therefore to become more paradoxical in our search for God, and less obvious, less concrete. I think God is quite an artist, He needs to be approached with some "art." He can not be seduced by stupid brute force!

Keep in this one track of tough, stereotyped, Catholic, monastic thinking dear “T-B O Y” and I will give you my therapist's phone number very soon -- just a joke my friend. Yours always -- Should-free

Rigiditananda
Unregistered User
(11/18/01 1:34 am)
 SRF Research Department
Many of us know already-- through painful personal experiences -- that the SRF lessons are not safe at all. The military language in which the teachings are communicated in the lessons and books is damaging. But, one more step, and we could also challenge basic, basic assumptions that 'till now are based on zero scientific grounds.

For example: are the devotees understanding through the Lessons how to practice the techniques? Are the instructions providing room enough for experimentation, and appropriate personalization of the teachings? Have these many years of boxing everyone into a rigid paradigm, on threats of being disloyal, damaged people? How many have been damaged? How much pain and suffering, rigidity and disconnection from our deepest feelings, has this situation created?

During this past 50 years, has Brother Anadamoy's "concrete mixer"created happiness in the world or increased suffering? Has Brother Anandamoy's "SRF recipe" worked these years to nourish people with love and joy or with guilt and low self-esteem? Is the church being useful to humanity or is increasing its pains? Furthermore: are the techniques working? Is Kriya Yoga working for people? For how many? Out of 100 how many feel real benefits. Is Hong-Sau working? For how many? Is the Aum technique helping people? How many out of 100? Are people confused with so many techniques? Are devottes overwhelmed with so many techniques to practice? How are they dealing with these feeling? Are those feelings interfearing with their efforts in meditation? Is anyway that SRFcould help here? See how many interesting questions could be researched with so many devotees today representing a statistically significant sample?

As you read the above paragraph were you feeling contempt for the scientific method and science? Where that feeling comes from? Because Master believed in science not to mention Sri Yukteswar.

I hope the final balance is positive, but today -- honestly -- I have my doubts. So, how could could find out?

The most interested in finding out should be SRF itself. But, of course, cults are dogmatic by definition, so they believe in their doctrine and they are sure without any basis that they are saving humanity from dreadful pains! Would Master agree with this? Master said that he didn't believe in sects, cults or even churches -- so why he would believe that SRF is doing good to the world? Not to mention why should I believe in such things, if my Guru doesn't!

But still I have high hopes about SRF. My hope is that one day the new generation of monks will take over and SRF will become a modern, rational spiritual path. And if that happens, I hope they will have the courage and the honesty to create a research department, to do serious research about how the teachings are really impacting devotee's lives. To continue ASSUMING that everything is rosy color is dogmatism.

A research department will provide valuable information to the SRF board so that it can implement appropriate policies and adjustments to the teachings to make SRF service to humanity more effective, year after year. This is the type of church that I'm sure Master would like to have. He believed in science and religion working together for the benefit of humanity. He didn't believe in baseless assumptions, he didn't believe in dogma.

If Kriya yoga works, why not proving it scientifically -- any fear here? If Hong-Sau is the scientific technique that SRF claims; why not validating it with scientific research? The Transcendental Meditation group did it with their technique. Today that technique is quite respected in the scientific community. Why SRF, with 10 times more financial resources than the MT group, doesn't do scientific research? Because to do that you need to abandon the dogmatic thinking and to open up to the truth -- to love truth! And, to love and respect science. SRF talks about science but underlying that there is contempt for science -- "we know better."

I hope and pray that one day, the new generation of monastics, when they take over (and that day will come) will create an SRF research department -- it is urgently needed!

Yuga
Unregistered User
(11/18/01 1:56 pm)
 research
Yes, Rigiditananda, you said:

"He believed in science and religion working together for the benefit of humanity. He didn't believe in baseless assumptions, he didn't believe in dogma.

If Kriya yoga works, why not proving it scientifically -- any fear here? If Hong-Sau is the scientific technique that SRF claims; why not validating it with scientific research? The Transcendental Meditation group did it with their technique. Today that technique is quite respected in the scientific community. Why SRF, with 10 times more financial resources than the MT group, doesn't do scientific research?"

I must say, one of the best suggestions I have seen come out of this discussion board!!!!

Rigiditananda
Unregistered User
(11/19/01 1:25 am)
 Thanks to Yuga
Many thanks for your support -- Rigiditananda

peer345
Unregistered User
(12/12/01 2:58 pm)
 re: are the teachings safe?
I have a query re Kriya. Does anyone know of any potential side effects from the practice of Kriya apart from the claimed good ones. I ask because I have found it good but also I have found it has also brought up a lot of emotional stuff I haven't always been able to deal with effectively. So much so I am taking an extended break from its practice. I do have a pretty awful childhood background so I know that probably has something to do with it!

I also know it has been called "cobra breath" and "kundalini pranayam". I wonder if there are any examples of people practicing it long term who have developed spiritually? The matas don't seem like such great examples - there must be some who are though, if not what finally is the value of the technique. What does it do really - anyone know?

I would appreciate some feedback here if anyone cares to answer.

peer

ps I like this site but I do find it grueling at times as well

Creation48
Unregistered User
(12/12/01 9:11 pm)
 re: are the teachings safe?
Yes, the teachings work. I have developed light years
because of the teachings.

Alice
Registered User
(12/13/01 10:20 am)
 Re: re: are the teachings safe?
Thanks for raising this question. I do not have extensive personal experience in this realm but have heard comments, and like you, have noticed some effects. So far, what I vaguely understand is that Kriya can and does sometimes stir up the karmic pot. It can be the instrument of raising karmic issues to our awareness. While uncomfortable, we really can't work on stuff until we become aware of it. Within myself, I have gone through a period where I felt like a rain barrel that had sat undisturbed and then suddenly had a water hose placed in it. All the gunk from the bottom strated swirling around. After one period of time where I did 108 kriyas, twice daily, all hell broke loose in my life. I cut back to my regular number until I could deal with everything. I'm getting ready to do another stint of 108x2. Look out!! I must say though, that I have some trepidation. One thing that I found helpful the last time around was a comment that I heard a minister say. That when things get too tough, you can ask Master to back off for awhile, and he will. I tried that the last time, and the pressure was indeed reduced.

premdas
Registered User
(12/14/01 1:38 pm)
 Satsanga
This question, a valuable one, has a partial answer in "satsang," or controversially in the importance of "World Brotherhood Communities". Finding true sharing and guidance from those a few steps ahead on your path can reassure the kriyaban's practice when the water in the glass gets muddied (when the vrittis in the nervous system get stirred and released). Also, benefitting kriya, according to Master, is devotion, which it sounds as if most concerned here have. Blessings in Kriya. Om

pschuppe
Registered User
(12/14/01 3:03 pm)
 Re: re: are the teachings safe?
As far as I can tell, LIFE in a limited form (duality, body, ego, yuga, etc., etc.) isn't safe at all, period. There is at least the potential of significant danger and difficulty at any time. So of course the teachings (which promise to deliver one from danger permanently) will, sooner or later, enable/cause one to encounter some danger in life by way of eventually overcoming all danger forever. Which is why, for example, vitually any serious book on Hatha Yoga will give some type of warning/instructional note, etc. to the effect that if one is serious about making a life path of Hatha Yoga, one must eventually get personal(ized) instruction from a qualified teacher.

This is a graduate level course we're talking about here. Master didn't come to teach readin,' ritin,' an' 'rithmetic, IMHO.

ps

peer345
Unregistered User
(12/14/01 3:10 pm)
 re: are the teaching safe - kriya
Thanks for the replies to this question.

Creative 48 - can you explain what you mean by "developed". In what sense do you feel you have developed, how far is lightyears? I appreciated your reply but it did raise many questions for me - are you interested in replying to them?

Alice and Premdas, thanks for your thoughtful answers. It does raise the issue of devotion for me. This is an oft used word with SRF teachings but just what are we talking of here. I can see how some kind of balance is suggested by this attitude - if it is indeed an attitude. Maybe the fact I have these questions goes back to Premdas' suggestion re satsanga. The space to feel free to ask the questions you need to and to be able to follow them through until you get an answer you understand. Sometimes I think this board is just like that!

thanks again,

peer

Should Free
Registered User
(1/12/02 6:51 am)

ezSupporter
 Re: are the teachings safe?
Dear xxxxxxxxxxx

You would benefit going to counseling. A therapist will help you to accept yourself as you are. You are not only trying to "behave" -- possibly you are obsessing about that. It is exhausting to go all they long checking yourself and shoulding yourself. The only antidote I know of to resistance is acceptance. Shoulding is resistance -- nothing else. The shoulding -- the thoughts telling you "I should behave this way, I should not have said that and so on, are creating those feelings of guilt. Thought comes first, then feeling -- but in your case your thoughts are already quite automatic and fast. Cognitive therapy would be the best.

Acceptance is the opposite of resistance. You may try to affirm "I accept" when you feel bad. Try to identify what you are resisting and connect the affirmation with that event, feeling, attitude or situation. It may help you also to remember at those times that God is everything -- even your "bad girl" behavior! You can love him in that disguise -- why not?

But again, my recommendation is to go therapy, what you have is a form of neurosis that may take you years to solve it by yourself. Do not take it lightly.

I feel sad to learn about your pain. I understand you. I went through years experiencing something that seems quite similar to your case. Today I'm cured, but it took years fo hard work.

Edited by: srfwalrus at: 4/16/02 8:31:35 pm
Web site surfer
Unregistered User
(1/12/02 9:02 am)
 same reaction
Perhaps you had the same reaction to Should Free's post that I did -- "Glad you are giving the lady some compassion, but quit telling her what is best for her."

Should Free, it may you are treading on your own heels and becoming what you have tried so hard to eliminate from your life. Gee whiz -- how do you know that a certain kind of therapy would be best for her. Maybe you want to ask yourself if you are 'shoulding' her.

xxxxxxxxx, you are definitely not alone. Many have been through the same phase. If you do want to get some therapy, there is a wonderful therapist in Pasadena who has treated a number of SRF members. Post here if you are interested and I can refer you.

Edited by: srfwalrus at: 4/16/02 8:33:41 pm
InSearch
Unregistered User
(1/12/02 7:34 pm)
 Therapist
Could you please post the contact info for the Pasadena therapist you mentioned? He/she is obviously familiar with SRF and the many issues that have arisen for those who struggle to move on.

Anonymous
Unregistered User
(1/17/02 9:25 am)
 Name of therapist in Pasadena
Someone asked for the name of the therapist who has worked with many SRF members. I asked if she minded my posting it and she said she didn't. Her name is Judy Jolly and her phone number is 626 792 7317. She and her daughter (also a therapist) are wonderful people and terrific therapists.

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