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RedsterLA
Registered User
(1/29/02 8:45 pm)
Reply 		Religion vs. God vs. Practitioners
My maternal grandmother was a Salvation Army officer and a self-taught learned woman. She could speak, read and write 8 languages, was an expert on world history and antiques, and could quote most of the Bible from memory. She also knew the tenets of all the major religions and had studied the "big five" in detail.

She said, more than once, that we should "Never judge a religion by its practitioners or clergy, but by its writings. God will speak to your heart and you'll know the path for you." Her wisdom has stayed with me lo these many years, and when I see people being less than stellar examples of their respective religion's philosophies, etc., I recall how imperfect we all are, and how much we all have to learn and grow—then go back to the source rather than relying on imperfect humans to be my example.

We do that by following our hearts and going straight to God. What will be right for you may not necessarily be right for me and vice versa. No organised religion is going to be the right place for everyone, nor are any organisations or their leaders going to be perfect. This is NOT a world of perfection, but of intermittent happiness and joy punctuating long bouts of trials, tribulations, pain and sorrow. The longer we hold out the hope for that perfectly run organisation and think this is anything but the school it is, we will run down the road of calling people "bad ladies" or "insensitive" and the like.

Remember the concept of all things being neutral and it is only our attitude which makes it "good" or "bad" to each of us?

I say that while trying to make something better, one needs to be sure that one is not also condemning to failure the attempt(s) by oneself or others. If you have viewed what you consider to be an injustice, then stop hiding in anonymity and prove your allegations—I've not yet seen any post that provides substantiated proof (i.e., in that the specific incident being cited is validated by another who saw the same incident). I see lots of "Well, I heard..." yet precious little in response to such posts except to reinforce the opinion by citing a different example. I'm not saying that they are false incidents or that there haven't been instances in which monastics have behaved in less than a stellar manner. I simply think that the fear which seems to pervade some of the posts borders on paranoia.

The organisation is not God, but God is in each of us (including the monastics)—with all our respective imperfections and beauty.

It seems that so many of the posts here are in the "SRF sucks" mode, and discount or belittle the Truths found in Yogananda's writings... And if one disputes the validity of any edition published after his death, then get your hands on an earlier edition and read that.

Substantiate your claims and perhaps they can be fully addressed and others can assist in helping to change the actions that are causing so much friction. Maybe not—but at least there will be actual effort rather than a lot of inaction in conjunction with a lot of ineffectual "venting."

Just my opinion, of course, and anyone is free to disagree. I simply wanted to state some of my feelings and observations.

Pig Ma
Registered User
(1/29/02 9:50 pm)
Reply 		Re: Religion vs. God vs. Practitioners
RedsterLA,

I just read everything you've posted today, and it is quite a lot! I like your tone, and how you say things. The stories about Br. Bhaktananda were especially wonderful, and it makes me sad that he has never been the minister at San Diego temple. I would love to be under his wings.

I think you have said some very valid things- I like how you are not a rubber stamp! You keep things on a positive tone, and bring out points that may not have been previously thought about.

I have no idea how much of this board you have read. I would like to hear about your opinion on the experiences I have gone through. They are under treatment of members/monastics, mainly the one called Kicked out of Sunday School. Also, I posted four letters to Mother Center under the A-nanda section.

I am not anti-SRF, but I am anti-lawsuit. I would love to hear what you have to say- positive or negative. Also, it sounds like you are one of the Hollywood devotees? I wanted to have a talk with Br. Bhaktananda about this, but without a personal relationship with him it doesn't seem likely.

cjmagorian
Unregistered User
(1/30/02 4:48 am)
Reply 		redster
Dear Pig Ma,

You're brave. LOL.Yes, I can't wait until I see what he says about my postings either. Puts a little kick in the postings.

oldtimer
Unregistered User
(1/30/02 7:55 am)
Reply 		to Redster
1. I notice you post anonymously, also. Why is that?

2. Have you ever served directly at SRF? Not cleaning or gardening, but in some organizational capacity? What was the experience like, if you have? If not, how can you have an opinion?

3. Same question as #2, but as an employee.

4. Do you have any close friends who are employees, or who serve closely with Mother Center? What are their opinions?

5. I think our friend fromLA made the point elsewhere, about confronting evil instead of sticking your head in the sand.

6. Somewhere else you posted that you started in 1988. May I suggest that you don't have the minimum 15 years experience to participate in the discussion. Come back in a few years.

Finally, most of us stay anonymous because we have first hand experience of the vindictiveness of SRF. Don't expect to goad anyone into revealing something that could be used against them, or against someone they know.

Yes, I'm paranoid. But that doesn't mean they aren't out to get me. And, just who are you? You see, this is a very valid question. Those people who sincerely believe SRF is fine, or who sincerely believe that one should only focus on one's own spiritual life, don't surf the internet looking for boards about SRF. They don't spend a lot of time reading hundreds of posts, and composing lots of their own posts, as you have done. Curiouser and curiouser.

loveyogananda
Unregistered User
(1/30/02 10:06 am)
Reply 		religious organization vs. God and Gurus
Redster,

I appreciate hearing of your positive experiences within SRF. However, the disrespect you show toward those who have had negative experiences ('substantiate your claims', it's just 'ineffectual venting', etc.) surprises me. Clearly, the people posting here have had direct experience. This is not just a gossip board- real people have had real experiences, and are sincerely trying to understand.

I do agree with you:

Quote:
I recall how imperfect we all are, and how much we all have to learn and grow—then go back to the source rather than relying on imperfect humans to be my example.


Agreed. In fact, that's what many people here are saying. Don't trust the SRF organization to be the true spokesman/channel for the Guru. Go to the source- Yogananda. Go to his original writings, which have been changed to promote the organization as the go-between, between the devotee and the Guru. Use discrimination when listening to imperfect people within the organization. Go to the source.

Quote:
The organisation is not God, but God is in each of us (including the monastics)—with all our respective imperfections and beauty.


Indeed, God is also in each person here, and in what they are saying. From what I have seen here, and in the organization, God is perhaps more present here, because those here are less clouded by the need to promote the organization, or prove it's position as THE true conduit for the Guru.

Quote:
She said, more than once, that we should "Never judge a religion by its practitioners or clergy, but by its writings. God will speak to your heart and you'll know the path for you."


Right on. Don't judge a religion by it's clergy. Look to devotees, like many here, who are not in a position of power or authority within the Church. Those in authority, by neccessity, must sometimes give advice that supports the Church's needs, rather than the devotee's needs.

In the priceless words of Thomas Jefferson: "My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest."

Quote:
It seems that so many of the posts here are in the "SRF sucks" mode, and discount or belittle the Truths found in Yogananda's writings... And if one disputes the validity of any edition published after his death, then get your hands on an earlier edition and read that.


Right on again. Go to the source. Read the Guru's real (unchanged) writings. You might be surprised how different they are. I close with the following link that supports this. I do it with some hesitation, since it's from an A-nanda site, and I don't want this to be perceived as just an 'A-nanda thing'. But until there is another site that offers such compelling evidence, I refer you to:

www.yoganandarediscovered...h/CAY.html

chrisparis
Unregistered User
(1/30/02 10:20 am)
Reply 		What, Me Worry?
I have to say, when I first came across this board I was devastated, absolutely devastated. However, I've thought it over, and here's what I think, for the little it's worth:
First of all, it's clear there is a real problem at Headquarters, and it is always a shame when people who are supposed to be spiritual treat people who are trying to become spiritual like garbage. But, on the other hand, why be surprised? Any spiritual organization that is becoming institutionalized after the founder has departed goes through the same thing. The teaching of Christ has little to do with what goes on in the Roman Catholic church (or the fundamentalist groups, for that matter). Mohammed may have been a great spiritual man, so what connection does he have with Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda? And so on and so on.
Why do people want to establish a connection with being a kriyaban with being a monastic? Why did Babaji choose Lahiri Mahasaya to bring Kriya back to the world? In part, it was because he was a HOUSEHOLDER! Most kriyabans in India are also householders. At what point did somebody decide that monastics had an edge in spiritual advancement? Such a notion is farcical. Look at most members of monastic and celibate congregations. Hard edged, un-loving, repressed. No wonder nuns slap pupils fingers with rulers. Anybody that signs on for that trip thinking it will help their spiritual evolution better be in serious need of heavy karmic retribution. Otherwise they are deluding themselves.
Oldtimer has it exactly right. Look, if the people that run the Oxford press turned out to be a bunch of drunken, lecherous, sneering hypocrites, buggering the mailroom delivery boy, having affairs with each other's children, paying themselves lavish salaries while paying the staff peanuts so they can live in the lap of luxury, what does any of that have to do with the spiritual content of the Bibles they publish? NOTHING! It is only if they start editing the contents that there is a problem. Obvious one would think. The less obvious conclusion though, is that if a person went out and joined up as a staffer with the idea that it would make them a better christian, they would be severely disappointed.
Paramahansa Yogananda was a great sprirtual giant, and his teachings are being promulgated fairly intact by SRF. Its too bad that some have gone out and joined up and had a bad experience at the hands of the administration, but what did you really expect? These people aren't Babaji's group of disciples wafting around the Himalayas, they're the people charged with printing the lessons, licking the stamps and answering the mail. The spiritual techniques you want are right there in the lessons if you are willing to apply them. The renunciation that you need to make is the renunciation of ATTACHMENT. A renunciate in the meaningful sense of the word is one because of an INTERNAL condition, not because he has become a Swami. Make that renunciation. Begin where you are. There may be true spiritual giants at SRF today, as there were in the days of Saint Lynn or Gyanamata, but there are more, many more OUT HERE. And, if you find them they will tell you "I will give you seeds, you'll have to do the gardening yourself".

chrisparis
Unregistered User
(1/30/02 10:22 am)
Reply 		OOOps
Sorry. Meant Redster, not Oldtimer.

AumBoy
Registered User
(1/30/02 10:54 am)
Reply 		Gossip and Venting
RedsterLA,

Welcome to the Walrus. I (and others, I'm sure) appreciate your postings.

You defined gossip in another thread:

Quote:
(1) Rumor or talk of a personal, sensational, or intimate nature.
(2) A person who habitually spreads intimate or private rumors or facts.
(3) Trivial, chatty talk or writing.


And also you wrote about "venting" but did not define it. Maybe blowing off steam is a definition? We could qualify it as blowing off steam for no reason or for some reason. Or basically, free expression.

Now the above would seem to be a "bad" thing. But I don't think it's so clear cut. If one is unable to let go of a disturbing feeling or talk about it or write about it then where does it go? I think it would usually get suppressed and then burst forth in an uncontrolled explosion of emotion or become suppressed and, over time, change the behavior of a person. Early on in my SRF "trek", I too, looked up the definition of gossip and adhered to it (the definition) as closely as possible because I "knew" it was a bad thing. But after living in an SRF ashram for many years and being in SRF for 20 years my view is different. Here is a true example:

A friend of mine called me a few months ago and wanted to stop by. I had not seen him in about 18 months. He is in SRF.
When he did stop by we "chatted" for about 10 minutes. (Chatting is ok, but this would fall under item #3 above.) Then for the next 4 or 5 hours he talked about some problems he was having with other individuals. (This would definitely fall under item #1 above). There was very little I could or did say to him. He was in such pain. I did join in the conversation for about .5 percent of it, though. When he left he felt better and wrote me a day or two later and told me he had a better perspective on the situations he was dealing with.

Now what if I refused to talk or to him about things I thought were trivial to me? Wouldn't that be self-centered on my part? What if when he came over I asked how God was treating him? How his meditations were going? Did he want to meditate together? What lesson he was on? What affirmation he was practicing? And kept the conversation only on God. And brought the conversation back to God every time he said something. I think this would have invalidated him and may have caused him to feel worse. There would have been no time for him to feel authentic. No time for him to express himself.

I feel we all have the answers we need inside of us. But I also feel that we need sounding boards sometimes. I think we need to withhold judgement of others because we do not, ourselves, have the whole point of view.

When I was in the ashram I kept hearing the quote from Master about Rajasi, that he progressed so fast because he knew how to listen. I kept wondering what that meant. So on one shopping trip or errand run into town I went to the library and got the following book: The Lost Art of Listening, by Michael Nichols. Fascinating book. Maybe I'll review it on the Walrus and show how it helped me to help others and myself.

My point is that we should not simply find a definition and assume that it applies to all equally and in all situations. There are other reasons for things that happen. I do agree with item #2 above and we have had people on this board who do that but they come and go. We need to have compassion, empathy, and sympathy to see beyond simple definitions. We need to be brave enough, ourselves, to be authentic. This, I feel, is the best way to help others and SRF. Master said, "Only love can take my place", and I feel if we each operate from that perspective we can embrace others without judgement and help them through their pain. One reason for this board is for people to "vent" and get stuff out of their systems so they can move on. Some have done just that. I applaud this board because it is an open discussion of issues the organization has refused to address so individuals come here and vent, grow, and move on.

cjmagorian
Unregistered User
(1/30/02 11:28 am)
Reply 		to Rester
I had my hands on earlier editions of Yogananda's works, and I saw the differences, and when I talked with one of SRF famous Brothers, I was told that I was disloyal to Yogananda for having them. When you read them and see the difference you begin to wonder who is really being disloyal. I was also told that SRF and Yogananda were one and the same, that if you leave SRF, you leave Yogananda. Whereas in old magazines that are printed on www.yogananda-dif.org, I found where Yogananda told his disciples to go to the church of their choice. He never said if you leave the organization, you lose him. Can you imagine his saying, "Oh, I see you have one of my earlier writings. Well, you are being disloyal. You lose."

loveyogananda
Unregistered User
(1/30/02 12:43 pm)
Reply 		The changes
Indeed. When you look at some of the changes to Yogananda's words, you see why the message sounds so different now, compared to fifty years ago.

For example, they have changed what Yogananda said about the householder vs. the monastic path in Yogananda's own autobiography. Read closely the difference in meaning, and decide for yourself just why that change was made:

------------------------------------------
"A true yogi may remain dutifully in the world; there he is like butter on water, and not like the easily-diluted milk of unchurned and undisciplined humanity. To fulfill one's earthly responsibilities is indeed the higher path, provided the yogi, maintaining a mental uninvolvement with egotistical desires, plays his part as a willing instrument of God." (1st edition, p. 222)

"...Fulfilling one's earthly responsibilities need not separate man from God, provided he maintains mental uninvolvement with egotistical desires and plays his part in life as a willing instrument of the Divine." (most recent edition, copyright Self-Realization Fellowship)
------------------------------------------


On Kriya Yoga, from Yogananda Autobiography:
------------------------------------------
"The actual technique [of Kriya Yoga] must be learned from a Kriyaban or Kriya Yogi; here a broad reference must suffice." (Original 1946 edition, p. 243)

"The actual technique [of Kriya Yoga] should be learned from an authorized Kriyaban (Kriya Yogi) of Self-Realization Fellowship (Yogoda Satsanga Society of India). Here a broad reference must suffice." (p. 235) Copyright Self-Realization Fellowship
------------------------------------------


One additional note, that is very informative:
The name "SRF", "Self-Realization Fellowship", etc., appears 25 times in the first edition of the Autobiography of a Yogi, and 144 times in the twelfth edition. Go figure.

So, you see that much of the organization's defense ('Master said', 'Master wished') is based on changes that were made to Yogananda words.

Go to the source, friends.

cjmagorian
Unregistered User
(1/31/02 3:04 am)
Reply 		the changes
On the Kriya changes in the Autobiography, the latest change is from "here a board reference must suffice" to "here a narrow reference must suffice." They made three changes, one with each edition. They say that Yogananda made those changes, but if he did, then why were they not made all at once, unless he is channeling information to them, and he keeps changing his mind about how he wants it.

username
Registered User
(1/31/02 9:14 am)
Reply 		RE: Salvation Army Policies
Dear Red-

SRF would benefit from following some of the Salvation Amry Policies:

1) ministers there after they retire are given enough money to buy a small house someplace and have enough money with social security and (maybe a pension even) to live comfortably.
2) Employees have retirement/pension plans
3) Ministers who aren't retired receive salary/benefits worth about 70,000 per year.
4) Ministers are allowed to marry, but the wife must also be a minister

So, the Salvation Army has a lot of nice policies but they do have their bad points:
1) The Salvation Army's position is that the Civil Rights Act does not apply to them in respect to employment practices. All employees sign an acknowledgment of this. So, this ,they feel, gives them the opportunity to fire anyone that they think might be gay/lesbian.
2) The woman who are in the Salvation Army, as ministers or adherents (the word they use for what SRF calls "member") are not allowed equal position as the men.
3) There are few blacks or minorities on their many board of directors. And maybe even No women!

RedsterLA
Registered User
(1/31/02 7:25 pm)
Reply 		Re: to Redster
To answer your questions:

(1) Hi. I'm Gael Walsh. I attend Hollywood Temple. There. Anonymous no longer. Redster is simply the handle I use for all discussion groups, and what I used to sign up here. This format is different than those I've used in the past. Oh yeah.... and I'm a gal, not a guy.

(2/3) Not at Mother Centre, but at Hollywood. Anyone can have an opinion about the words they see and the points of views they espouse -- whether anyone else agrees with them is another thing altogether. HOW I can have an opinion about behaviour in general is by years of observation and interacting with people over the almost 50 years of my life. My opinion, however, is simply opinion, and by virtue of being opinion, it is no more "right" or "wrong" than anyone else's opinion.

(4) Yes, I have close friends who have resigned from Mother Centre, and others who are still there. The consensus so far seems to be that (a) Guru's words are real; meditation and its benefits are real; Kriya is real; God, Jesus and the Masters are real; (b) Right now, Mother Centre is in a tremendous upheaval; and (c) for those who cannot stay on the "inside" (for whatever reasons) to try to help effect positive change for the organisation, whatever they can do on the "outside" to make themselves better persons and remind people that Guruji is not the organisation with all its flaws is the road they are taking. In addition, they have all said that Hollywood Temple is not labouring under the same difficulties which seem to pervade Mother Centre.

(5) One need not be vituperative to be effective. Isn't that what many are clamouring is so wrong about how the "powers that be" are behaving? If we condemn bad behaviour in others, yet take part in it ourselves, aren't we just adding to the "end justifies the means" mindset? One also may be quite able to see what is occurring, yet not choose to become vindictive about things. Bad behaviour on our part is not justified, in my opinion -- regardless of how we have been treated. That is not hiding one's head in the sand, it is simply realising that unloving actions are not going to encourage others to BE loving in THEIR actions. We become hypocrites if we engage in bad behaviour while condemning others for theirs.

(6) There's a "minimum Kriya requirement" to participate in discussions regarding SRF on these boards? That's like saying one isn't allowed to express their love for God/Divine Mother because they have only recently discovered that He/She is there for all their needs. I apologise for "intruding" if you personally feel that one must have walked their path for a minimum of 15 years to have their opinions considered. It seems a bit closed-minded, however -- and reminiscent of the rigidity for which the organisation is being condemned. How do you manage to reconcile that -- or are you being facetious, with tongue implanted firmly in cheek?

I wasn't trying to "goad" anyone into revealing themselves by name on this board if they don't want to -- I merely suggest that if one truly wants to effect change, one needs to step up to the front lines (so to speak) and lay out the facts as they see them -- and lay them out to the appropriate persons who might be able to assist. Blowing off steam about how badly we've been treated (by whomever, for believe me, I have a boss who would vie for top "honours" for Paranoid Weasel of the Year), while perhaps cleansing to a degree, does not address SOLUTIONS, merely the problems themselves.

One of the other things my grandmother taught me (and the Salvation Army was a lot different when she was an officer than it is today, to address another poster's response) was that when one had a complaint about how something was done, run, etc., one should also have a potential solution to posit -- as anything else was unconstructive (she also was a little less tactful, and often dubbed it as "whining" which she couldn't abide). This is a woman who raised 5 kids [mostly on her own after my grandfather was gone] during the depression on $10 a week and STILL helped others get fed, clothed and housed. I put her up against any monastic or clergy as an example of how one can combine love (of God and her neighbours), grit, compassion, determination, tirelessness and no-nonsense common sense.

Quote:

Yes, I'm paranoid. But that doesn't mean they aren't out to get me. And, just who are you? You see, this is a very valid question. Those people who sincerely believe SRF is fine, or who sincerely believe that one should only focus on one's own spiritual life, don't surf the internet looking for boards about SRF. They don't spend a lot of time reading hundreds of posts, and composing lots of their own posts, as you have done. Curiouser and curiouser.


I actually wasn't surfing the Internet looking for boards about SRF -- I was actually on a search to try and purchase an original edition of Autobiography of a Yogi (not someone else's reproduction of it, but an original), and one of the keywords happened to bring me here. I'd never seen an SRF board and was curious, so I began reading the posts. I'm not shy about expressing my opinion, so I jumped in with both feet. I'm truly sorry if that offended you, or made you think that somehow I was some sort of "enemy" because many of my experiences happened to differ from those of some of the other posters.

See... I'm kinda curious about philosophy, religion, God, human nature, and all the things that connect us and all the things that make us different -- always have been -- and the opportunity to converse with others outside my normal circle of friends who have knowledge of Guruji's writings and such piqued my interest. Perhaps I was over zealous in announcing my arrival, and threw the door open rather than cracking it slightly and testing the waters first. I was just kinda pleased to find a spot where people could "chat" about their experiences -- bad AND good.

Also... several of my friends who are "in the know" suggested that for those who wished to contribute in some way to keeping one of the bastions of "goodness" going, yet didn't wish to see their money diverted elsewhere, to simply write on their check and/or place their money in an envelope with the words: "For the Hollywood Temple Building Fund." This designation will ensure its use for a good cause -- new bathrooms. :)

I thought that one of the poster's suggestions of a heart with Only Love inscribed was also an interesting suggestion, although I'm not sure that would make it past the ushers and to those who really need to see it. Perhaps, in addition to those hearts left in the collection basket for the ushers to see, a "heart" campaign could be waged -- people from all over could send (anonymously, if they feel threatened) little hearts with Guruji's words that apply to the difficulties and faults from which those at Mother Centre seem to be suffering. It seems that the road of Divine Love would ultimately be the most efficacious in affecting change (maybe not for the short haul, but in the long run). Just a suggestion...

Who I am is a person who loves God and Guru, and who is saddened that people have been hurt at the hands of those entrusted with His work. I am also saddened at the inability of some to differentiate between God/Guru and the organisation. That's like reviling Jesus and condemning all Catholic clergy based on the long list of injustices done in the RELIGION's name. God is God. Religion is a different matter altogether. At Lake Shrine there is the Court of All Religions, where the symbols of the five major paths are a reminder that one can have ties to those paths and still be a meditator and know God. Guruji taught the universality of the paths -- that meditation was the cornerstone of each. That his message seems to be obscured is unfortunate and it is my hope that those who love God and Guru can be living examples of the teachings, and not resort to unloving, mean, angry displays -- for who will listen to a message of Love from a person whose face is red with anger?

Survivor
Unregistered User
(1/31/02 7:50 pm)
Reply 		Understanding
Redster,

Try to understand the level of betrayal many of the people posting on this board feel, and stop judging them. This is difficult for those who have not been through it themselves, but the denial of those who haven't is part of the problem.

At a not very subtle level, everyong in SRF is taught to judge others, and this is one of the most insidious things about the whole SRF environment and teachings (and I mean SRF, not Paramahansa Yogananda). You may not realize or admit you are judging, but it is there for everyone to see.

I'm not saying this to pull you down, but to make you more aware of all the elements in play here.

Best wishes.

RedsterLA
Registered User
(1/31/02 8:32 pm)
Reply 		Re: Understanding
I am sorry that you feel that by stating my feelings and opinions that is automatically judgmental of others.

If that is what you feel, I cannot change that, but my intentions and my inner feelings are not judgmental. I may not know a whole heckuva lot, by I DO know my own heart.

Please know that when I speak of bad behaviour or good behaviour or whatever, I include myself -- both in words and feeling -- in the statement. If I say that behaving badly while condemning it in others is "hypocritical," I include MYSELF in that statement -- that I, like anyone else, need to really introspect about such things. And believe me... I fall down in that regard just like any other human being.

If I have done anything to offend you, I offer my sincere apologies.

Joy to you and yours...

Pig Ma
Registered User
(1/31/02 9:18 pm)
Reply 		Re: Understanding
Hi RedsterLA- It's Jackie Saar, aka Pig Ma, a devotee from San Diego. My posts make it obvious who I am anyways, and I've posted my name sometimes, but mostly go by Pig Ma.

I love reading your posts, and the discussions it promotes. You responded point by point to someone, but perhaps haven't had the time (or interest?) to respond to my request of what you thought about my posts.

I've been advocating against the lawsuit, and there have been repercussions because of it. Most of what I've written is in the A-nanda section, since they are the one's being sued. I would love to hear your opinion about what I've posted. How do you feel about the lawsuit? Can you think of a better way besides writing letters to address this situation? What does Br. Bhaktananda think about this issue?

If you can respond it would be so great. Thanks for coming on board.

username
Registered User
(2/1/02 8:45 am)
Reply 		Re: Understanding
Red;

People have spoken up and let their opinion known. It is well known that Mother Center does not care what the members think or need or want or feel would be more useful for the work. Mother center wants TOTAL CONTROL. I think one of the main purposes of this board to somehow shake Mother Center up enough so that they CAN LISTEN. And then members and others will be able to do what you suggest.

onlylove
Unregistered User
(2/1/02 9:52 am)
Reply 		Regarding Lawsuits
Pig Ma, I too am curious what Redster and others think about the lawsuits against A-nanda. SRF has spent anywhere from $10-40 million of their member's donations on a lawsuit that has won absolutely nothing for them except further ill will in the broader Yogananda community.

There are a few remaining copyright questions in these lawsuits that are headed toward a final, very public, trial later this year. The spotlight of the press will be shining brightly (harshly perhaps) on SRF during this time. I would think the press will be interested in providing some background into SRF, it's corporate culture, and underlying issues behind this lawsuit.

This will be an ideal opportunity for people here to have a much more public forum for everything that is being shared on the SRF Walrus. The more that people hear about these things, the greater chance that SRF will finally start correcting itself, IMHO.

local
Unregistered User
(2/1/02 11:57 am)
Reply 		Lawsuit
I didn't know there was something more coming up. How can we keep up with this suit? How can we get in touch with any media people who might want to report on it? Serious media, like the LA Times or a TV network. I would be willing to go public in a forum like that, where it might really have an impact. And it might encourage and embolden others to go public. Maybe finally tear aside the curtain.

Newboy
Unregistered User
(2/5/02 9:54 am)
Reply 		Religion vs. God vs. Practioners
Thanks for your thoughtful posting, Redster. After studying Yoga and, to a much lesser extent, Buddhism and Christianity for 30 years, I've come to agree with people like your wise grandmother. Not to mention Sister Gyanamata who made it clear that even with a Guru in form around, there is much spiritual work left for the disciple to do. Yes, it is disheartening to see allegedly "evolved" people behave like any other jerk under certain conditions, but what am I to say to people when they opine of me: "What would HE be like WITHOUT his yoga meditation practice"? Master advised introspection and noticing how others react to us to see if we are progressing spiritually or not. I just read this advice for the umpteenth time in last year's edition of the "Spiritual Diary" as though it were for the first time. One thing is certain: the spiritual path is humbling and, as Master put it, "It's the minutes on the path that count, not the years." (I hope I quoted that properly!). It took me many YEARS to appreciate his point. For years I practiced the techniques regularly and, at times, deeply, but I still allowed my mind the "luxury" of being judgmental, negative, impatient, etc. when I was "off duty" from my official sadhana. You know, while driving my car, interacting with others, etc., I allowed my mind to identify with whatever. It took me 30 years to accept that I can't afford this "luxury" and expect deep meditation or spiritual insight to follow.

Thanks for allowing me to think out loud!

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